Agora

This is a transcript of an interview with Naser Khader in the programme ‘Søndag’ from DR’s TV-Avisen, 21:15 April 2nd 2006. A link to the online programme is provided so you should be able to follow the conversation by looking at the transcript.
Link to programme.

Natasja Crone: Good evening and welcome, Naser Khader.

Naser Khader: Good evening.

Natasja Crone: What happened the first time you heard about this clip where Akkari made the remarks we are about to see?

Naser Khader: I would like to emphasise this: I didn’t have a nervous breakdown. I didn’t go into hiding. But I needed a time-out. And that’s not so much because of what the ridiculous Akkari says that’s the problem. It was what came before. I was contacted by the French journalist who produced the programme who told me that this group, they hate me with a vengeance, that my name is mentioned every five minutes, that they’re conducting a massive smear campaign against me, not only in Denmark, but also in the Islamic world.

Natsja Crone: So he just called you up?

Naser Khader: Yes, and then he told me, before the programme was aired. But also the build-up to the airing of the programme, the day before, the media almost went on berserk. That made my family very worried, so I needed to withdraw, take a time-out and consider my situation.

Natasja Crone: But what were your thoughts when you heard this? When the things you describe happened in the media - the headlines, they’ll bomb you and so on. When did you make the decision, what were your thoughts?

Naser Khader: The threats, they’ve been there for several years. that was a factor. And the more threats I receive, the more limits are placed on my freedom. And I also had to consider my general position; is it a condition for the rest of my life that I’ll have to limit my Freedom of Movement? Is it also a condition for the rest of my family? They also experience pressure from people around them. The new thing is that now I’ve begun receiving unpleasant calls and so on from the Islamic world. All those things combined… By the way, in connection with the founding of Democratic Moslems I have been ‘on’ for several months, almost every day. I needed a time-out, a break. I haven’t had a minute to think things through.

Natasja Crone: what did you do? You say you had a need to.. What did you do?

Naser Khader: Well, together with my family I want far away and got some fresh air and began thinking things through. I also need to have my family on my side, because they’re also… There’s both support from my family but also concern. So the first couple of days I was mostly resigned, thinking ‘What now? - should I resign from politics?’ and then I thought that if I do, they’re gonna hate me anyway, no matter whether I stay on or resign. After a couple of days I started getting more and more angry. Now I’m simply so angry that I’m back in shape.

Natasja Crone: What does your family say about this?

Naser Khader: There is a lot of concern. I have the support of all members of my family, but they also experience a big pressure. They’re also punished because of me, and that’s disturbing. And not everyone in my family agree with me, yet they still experience annoyances, harrasment. If I was the only one who was targeted, it would be one situation. But when both my family and members of Democratic Moslems experience harassment, threats - we’ve seen examples of that recently. I ask: ‘What is our crime?’ Our crime is that we want to combine Islam and Modernity and Democracy and being Danish. I don’t see any crime in that, but some seem to do.

Natasja Crone: But about Akkari - the threat we saw in the French documentary was the drop that made the cup run over. But that cup is also filled with a lot of threats you’ve received for years. What kinds of threats do you receive? How do you feel this in your everyday life?

Naser Khader: Well it is… I won’t go into details about this, but it does leave marks when you’re told what people are going to do to you. It also leaves a mark when you’re an object of hate among certain groups. If only they could accept that my position is very different from theirs, but that isn’t the case. They’re organizing - the people who dislike me - organized, massive smear campaigns against me. It’s also on Arab websites. My address, which is supposed to be a secret, is also on Arab websites. Even my family in the Middle East have experienced some unpleasantries. I think that’s disturbing. Therefore, I have to take care not to be too egoistic, but also consider the welfare of my family.

Natasja Crone: These threats also mean that you live under constant Police protection. How does that work?

Naser Khader: That’s also a factor. The more threats, the more protection and the less freedom. That’s unpleasant. It’s unpleasant to have to constantly have to plan what to do. Just having to go and buy a litre of Milk needs to be planned. Just going to the movies with the kids, or to BR to buy some toys it has to be planned.

Natasja Crone: How many people come when you go to BR to buy toys?

Naser Khader: I won’t go into that, but it’s something that has to be planned. Before, I had protection when I went to certain places, to certain risk areas, but now it has entered my private sphere as well. It’s comforting to have protection and I am very pleased with it and the people who protect me are very professional, but it still makes me feel almost a prisoner. I think: what I’m fighting for is freedom, also freedom of movement for others but the more I fight for freedom, the smaller my own freedom gets and what I ask myself sometimes, especially when I get threatened, is if it’s a condition that I must accept or one which I should fight? Is it a condition of life? How long will this last? Will it get worse? That’s some of the things I have considered during that time.

Natasja Crone: In the French documentary which we saw a clip from before, there’s also another clip that worries you. A clip where it is mentioned that there are Salafists in the Islamic Faith Community. Let’s take a look at the clip.

[Clip from French Documentary “The Cartoons of Wrath” by Mohammed Sifaoui]

Abu Zachariah: The Moslems’ problem is that they’re too divided. Like in France there are 60 branches. I won’t mention all of them. But there’s the Salafists, the Jihadists, and so on.

Mohammed Sifaoui: Are you…

Abu Zachariah: We are Salafists. Moslem Brothers.

VOICE: Salafists, Moslem Brothers. This man confirms to us that Abu Laban’s Faith Community is among the most radical Islamist movements.

[Studio]

Natasja Crone: Naser Khader, please explain what this means, when he says that there are Salafists.

Naser Khader: Well, I didn’t see the programme when it was aired. I first saw it a couple of days ago. What shocked me the most wasn’t the threats directed at me, it was more what was said here.

Natasja Crone: And why does this shock you so?

Naser Khader: The man whose face we don’t see is Abu Zachariah, one of Abu Laban’s closest associates. He admits that they’re Salafists, of the Moslem Brotherhood, but Salafists. In short there are two kinds of Salafists. There’s the Wahabi-Salafists which include the Al-Qaeda movement and Osama bin Laden. They mean to achieve their goal through direct violence and terror. Then there’s the Brotherhood-Salafists - the ones he is talking about there - who admit that… their ideology is that they admit to being weak and therefore they don’t use violence, but what they do is that they play a double game. On one hand, they are obliging to society at large, but at the same time they have a hidden agenda that is to spread their faith, to educate and to influence young people to think like them, to embrace their ideology. I think that’s very worrying. Actually, that’s what worried me the most. I discovered that we have a number of Trojan Horses among us and that’s worrying.

Natasja Crone: I would like to add that we have confronted Ahmed Akkari with this and he denies that there’s a Moslem Brotherhood here in Denmark…

Ahmed Akkari: Well, then I don’t understand that Abu Laban’s closest associate is revealed… admits… he doesn’t admit, he’s revealed to be a Brotherhood-Salafist.

Natasja Crone: Would you say that Men like Ahmed Akkari and Abu Laban are dangerous?

Naser Khader: No, I don’t think… I wouldn’t say that they would directly encourage violence, but what we have to remember is that they are role models. There are many who look to them, also some semi- and fully psychopathic people. What we have to remember is that Van Gogh in the Netherlands… No Imams encouraged the killing of him…

Natasja Crone: Who is a director of documentaries…

Naser Khader: Exactly. What happened was that massive hate- and smear-campaigns were directed at him, that he was made all but lawless. He was called a rat - Abu Laban has called me a rat. And he was called an Islam-hater and things like that. That made a 25-year-old with a Moroccan background take matters into his own hands and become Allah’s self-appointed judge and jury.

Natasja Crone: So it’s also there that they participate in creating a situation. But they themselves say that much of this is part of the Arab rhetoric, that it shouldn’t be taken literally, that when there’s talk of a Martyr operation in this documentary, what’s meant is really to do one’s best. Do you see something there?

Naser Khader: They’re lying straight to our face. I have been an interpreter and a translator - i.a. here in Denmark’s Radio many years ago - and I know Arab rhetoric. I don’t think this can be excused with bombastic Arab rhetoric. I know bombastic Arab rhetoric. I’m flabbergasted when Abu Laban is in TV-Avisen’s studio, saying that four interpreters don’t understand Arabic. I know what’s rhetoric and what’s not. So it’s… Last week, the spokesman of the Islamic Faith Community Ahmed Garzen was here and he was sitting in my spot, saying that those remarks Ahmed Akkari made have consequences - he’s no longer going to be our spokesman. What I’m thinking is that if this was harmless and common Arab rhetoric, then why did those remarks have consequences?

Natasja Crone: Naser, we’ve asked if Akkari would like to come here today. You didn’t wish to meet him here in the studio, but we met him and he had a question for you.

[Ahmed Akkari on camera]

Ahmed Akkari: I would like to ask whether, he is aware that the things he say, it’s something… That he’s being used… there.

VOICE: How?

Ahmed Akkari: I think they’re being used to profile a larger critique, one-sided critique of Islam - spoken with his tongue - which isn’t balanced.

VOICE: So what you’re saying is that Anders Fogh or the Danish People’s Party are using Naser Khader?

Ahmed Akkari: There’s certainly some who might have an interest in Naser Khader only focusing critically on the errors his Moslem Brothers and Sisters have.

[Studio]

Natasja Crone: What is your response to this? That you’re being used in a game and tha….

Naser Khader: It’s obvious… I’m just so tired of their conspiracy theories. There are some who are using somebody else… You know what? I’m an independent, critical individual who knows my own mind. Nobody’s using me. Nobody’s telling me what to think. My opinions are mine. And moreover, what I think is also found in the Arab world. Notice the debate programmes on the Arab satellite channels… Al Jazeera. There people who have never been to Denmark and who don’t know Anders Fogh and Pia Kjærsgaard, who are saying the same things I do. They’re also critical of the Islamists. I think I’m acting in the best interest of the majority of Moslems by isolating the Islamists, the Salafists and saying that the majority of Moslems in Denmark have behaved themselves properly during the Muhammed-conflict. It’s not here we’ve seen burnings of Danish flags. It’s people who want to be integrated, it’s people who want to be part of Danish society but there are people who want to create an us-them. And they expound on things that almost make me vomit, conspiracies. Some are using some. When things happen it’s the fault of others. I’m tired of it.

Natasja Crone: But it’s an extreme contrast, because while you are hated and seen as a traitor in some Moslems millieus, you’ve never been more popular with the voters, all polls show. How do you feel about that?

Naser Khader: Well, I’m pleased by the support I’ve received, but I realise that there are some… If Akkari and his peers start supporting me and agree with me, I’ll start worrying. So I recognise it as a condition that we disagree and I have no problems with people being fundamentalists and literal and choose to lead a boring life. That’s one’s own concern. What I see as a problem is that they try directly or indirectly to make others live as they do. That’s what I don’t like.

Natasja Crone: The proselytizing way they do…

Naser Khader: Yes, exactly. I’m not… Recently A4, the weekly newsletter A4, did a survey that showed that 16% of Moslems feel that I represent them. I’m pleased with that. That’s more than support the Social Liberals in Denmark. So if 16% of the Moslems are Socially Liberal fanatical Democrats, I’m very happy.

Natasja Crone: Briefly, you’ve said today that you want to be Minister for Integration - is that your final goal?

Naser Khader: If you’d asked me a year ago, I would have said no. That policy area is nothing but trouble. But the fact that they see me becoming Minister for Integration as a nightmare, as worrying, makes me think that if that’s their problem, then my one goal from now on, in the short run, is to become Minister for Integration. If that’s their fear, I’ll give it to them. I’ll do everything to become Minister for Integration.

Natasja Crone: Thank you very much.