The Quran reported to the Police
It seems the Quran is under indictment in Germany. This entry will be updated. The article below is from Jyllands-Posten today:
Update: I see Pia Causa has posted about this also.
And Democracy Frontline has too.
Six Days More has some interesting commentary:
Many of us have been waiting for the inevitable collision between the emerging raft of religious vilification, “tolerance” and blasphemy laws, and the Koran, holy book of the intended beneficiaries of these new laws.
There have been a number of near-misses.
Their homepage.
A quote: “Schluss mit der falschen Toleranz für die muslimische Doppelmoral.”
Take this translation with a grain of salt - this is a translation between two non-native tongues for me - but that would go like this is English:
“End the wrongful tolerance of Moslem hypocrisy.”
Hrmm… I was wrong. They do speak my language.
Update: Found a shortened version of this article online (In Danish).
The Quran reported to the Police
By Kent Olsen, correspondent to Jyllands-Posten
A broad alliance of grass-roots movements have gone to the prosecutors of several states to hinder the dissemination of the Quran. According to the indictment, the Quran is not just a religious and historic book, but also a political book, which is incompatible with the constiution.
BerlinAt the prosecutor’s office at Gorch-Forck-Wall 15 in Hamburg, an unusual letter was received Monday morning, containing an indictment filed this weekend. The indictment targeted the Quran, charging that the holy book of the Moslems, according to the accuser, is incompatible with the German constitution.
“Support Denmark!”
The accuser is “Bundesverband der Bürgerbewegungen (BVB)”, which concerns itself with, in its own words, “defending basic rights and freedoms” against Islam. The extensive international furore, allegedly caused by the Muhammed cartoons, has made clear the relevancy of the alliance. Its homepage is decorated with a Danish flag with the words “Support Denmark! Defend the Free World.” superimposed on it.The indictment has been filed in several states, including Hamburg, Niedersachsen, Nordrhein-Westfalen, Bayern and probably more.
In several talkshows on German TV, conservative politicians have pointed out that the Quran is incompatible with the German constitution. The Turkish-born writer Serap Cileli said on January 29 this year that “the Quran must be considered a historic document. It is not compatible with our constitution and Human Rights.”
Now the alliance wants the matter tried at the courts.
Potent Political Book
The author of the indictment in Hamburg, Jutta Starke, says that the Quran was reported to the police two or three years ago, but that the report was dismissed on the grounds that it was a book of only historical interest.“The evenths of the last months have made clear that the Quran isn’t just a historical book, but very much a potent political book, a thing which we document extensively in the indictment,” Jutta Starke says.
She says it is a task of sisyphean dimensions to inform the media, politicians and churches of the true intentions of Islam in the enlightened world of the West.
“We are grateful to Jyllands-Posten that discussions about Islam have now become possible,” says Jutta Starke.
“You suffer for all of Europe and that’s why we find it indecent that Europe hasn’t loudly, in unison, taken a stand for Freedom of Speech against the laws of the Quran.”
The indictment consists of five pieces of paper and a number of appendices. The indictment says that it is not against Islam’s spiritual message, but against the judicial and political message.
The decisive count of the indictment “is in the Quran’s status vis a vis the Federal Republic of Germany’s constitution”. In the appendices to the indictment, 200 points have been listed “where the Quran is against and claims itself above the constitution.”
The Quran has an Answer to Everything
It is pointed out that the Quran to Moslems is the end all, be all in matters of faith, in matters of society and state and in the discourse with people of different views. The Quran says that it is the words of Allah. According to the views of several, including leading, Moslems in Germany, it is literally and absolutely true at all time and in all places, the indictment says.The newly elected German-born chairman of the Moslem Central Council of German, Ayyub Axel Köhler, is quoted in the indictment:
“A constitution after the principle of the division of powers into the legislative, the executive and the judicial powers, is nowhere to be found in the Islamic theory of the State. From an Islamic viewpoint, this is obvious, since the laws - the laws of God - in the form of sharia, are already made and thus no legislative power is needed, in that sense of the word. Only Allah is the legislative power.”
Muslim Chancellor
A prominent Moslem, Ibrahim El-Zayat, is quoted as saying that he thinks it is possible that “the Federal Chancellor in 2020 is a Moslem, born and raised in Germany, that the Federal Supreme Court has a Moslem judge, and that a Moslem representative will be on the Federal Radio/TV Council to secure the Moslem citizens’ constitutionally guaranteed rights.”“This land is our land and it is our duty to make positive changes. With the help of Allah, we will make it a paradise on Earth, by making available the Islamic ummah (ED: Islamic community) and all of mankind. Allah doesn’t change the situation of a people till the people have changed the situtation,” El-Zayad is quoted as saying.
Violence against the Infidels
The indictment is against the 200 verses of 114 suras (ED:chapters) of the Quran that are not compatible with the constitution, including demagoguery, incitement to murder, murder and mutilation, war, acceptance of thievery against infidels, meaning all non-Moslems. Verses are also pointed out where the equal rights of men and women are not upheld and where people of different faiths are oppressed.Example: “The unbelievers among the People of the Book (Jews and Christians): They are the vilest of all creatures.” (Sura 98:6)
According to the indictment that paragraph violates Article 4 of the Constitution and Paragraph 166 of the Penal Code.
Speaking Out, Standing Up, Hanging Together
UPDATE AND BUMP: Agora has several new posts related to the Danish cartoons and Islamism. This one points to a story from Germany where the Quran has come under legal indictment for being, “incompatible with the German constitution”.
In another post …
Trackback by bRight & Early — March 8, 2006 @ 2:30 pm
This litigation is a good thing and can serve to spell out in words of one syllable before the law, exactly why Islam is incompatible and a danger to Germany’s democracy and the well-being of any other democratic country. I hope this prosecution is carried out seriously and thoroughly! Defeat Islam at every turn. Make it seen to be wanting in the eyes of believers and unbelievers. Good work!
Comment by foreign devil — March 8, 2006 @ 3:46 pm
#2, foreign devil
Thank you. I am not so lofty that praise has no effect on me.
I am personally a bit sceptical about the moral implications of this suit. It doesn’t seem right to me that a religion should be censored like that. But at the same time I think it’s a great publicity stunt.
Comment by Administrator — March 8, 2006 @ 4:18 pm
Quran indicted in Germany
Agora reports a German civil movement has lodged a complaint in several German federal states against the free dissemination of the Quran. According to the complaint the Quran is incompatible with the German constitution on several key issues (no ……
Trackback by Klein Verzet — March 8, 2006 @ 5:27 pm
@#2,foreign devil,
this ligitation shall not censore the religion Islam at the whole!
The spiritual part of Islam shall not be censored! but the rechtlich-political part shall, because it is incompatible with the german constitution.This has been written very clearly!The main problem is,that the Koran is not a historical book but now and always the constitution of the Islam.
We must diskuss this!
Comment by jutta Starke — March 9, 2006 @ 1:47 pm
Jutta,
Just to give you my vote of support for this undertaking by you and the BVB. I hope this complaint will be treated seriously in at least one of the federal states in which you have submitted it. Here’s to a happy end.
Comment by Klein Verzet — March 9, 2006 @ 9:55 pm
This is the beginning of the reaction that I knew would happen with non-Muslims in the West. There is only so much pushing that people can take, and I think that the Cartoonifada has tipped the balance. Now if only Muhammad would be put on trial in Italy as Jesus was. Any Italians out there willing to bring that complaint?
Comment by Pim's Ghost — March 11, 2006 @ 12:03 am
This is the reaction I have been expecting from non-Muslims in the West. People can only be pushed so far and the cartoonifada has proven to be the tipping point, I believe. Now if only Muhammad would be put on trial in Italy as Jesus was! Are there any Italians out there willing to bring this to the courts?
Comment by Pims Ghost — March 11, 2006 @ 12:07 am
I don’t remember the case name, but Hugh Fitzgerald at JW/DW has referred to a failed lawsuit against the Koran in India.
It would be interesting to resurrect the case and compare strategies.
Comment by heroyalwhyness — March 11, 2006 @ 1:14 pm
“The Calcutta Quran Petition” is the name of the book by Sita Ram Goel where the 1985 Indian petition to ban the Quran is minutely described -a must read. The book is downloadable from http://voi.org/books.html.
Comment by Martinito — March 11, 2006 @ 2:25 pm
Just remember that going to court is only a start. Because even if you establish in court that the Koran is incompatible with the German Constitution, that won’t matter if you let the Muslim population’s high growth rate and immigration rate lead to a Muslim-majority in Germany by the end of the century, as Bernard Lewis forecast. The Muslim-majority could then legally change the German Constitution to be compatible with the Koran.
Comment by eduardo — March 13, 2006 @ 6:23 am
I’m torn. Islam is an obscene excuse for a religion but Germans are so deserving of sharia law. Its the fall of the Berlin wall all over again. Communism is socially and economically perverse but who in the world deserved Soviet chains more than the Germans?
Comment by david — March 13, 2006 @ 3:43 pm
Why waiting for the court… you can start by burning Quran and other books… nobody will mind… then you can start putting them in concetration camps… no problem there… then you can get rid of them… humanly of course… you know gas chambers and shit… that’s the german way.
But… the only difference is… there’s fucken 1 billion of them… so it is going to take courage and (not cowardness as in 30of the -ies last century) to do it…
Good luck and good bye! Fucken idiots!
Comment by Alex — March 13, 2006 @ 3:51 pm
alex,
comparisons with 30’s germany do not stand up too well to scrutiny.
how many germans were the jews hurting then?
and how many germans are muslims hurting now?
and who are the ones killing jews now?
jonathan riley (an englishman who wishes all the *great* religions would just die peacefully.)
Comment by jonathan riley — March 13, 2006 @ 4:37 pm
ouch! my non breaking spaces bit me.
Comment by jonathan riley — March 13, 2006 @ 4:38 pm
#15, jonathan riley
I think I have made it right. Was that the way it was supposed to look?
Comment by Administrator — March 13, 2006 @ 5:01 pm
Jonathan,
I have no faintest idea what your point is? The questions you pose, those that apparently serve as your version of *scrutinized* comparative analysis, are incoherent, irrelevant and quite possibly offered as a way to further mud the issue.
If you have anything better to offer… please do.
Respectfully
- Alex -
Comment by Alex — March 13, 2006 @ 5:28 pm
So, I find myself in a pickle. I was in Amsterdam on Feburary 25, in support of free speech. Now I have this case, of which I would like to see Islam and its ‘Mien Kamph’, the Koran, suppressed. To add to this there is the defense of the German Constitution.
I say let the case go forward. If anything it will continue to educated the masses in this horridly primitive thieving cult for ignorant losers.
Comment by Paul — March 13, 2006 @ 5:39 pm
It is not only the quoran which should be indited,but also the devout followers of its teachings,who are brainwashed into committing acts of murder and terrorism in the name of allah,and those who applaud and condone these acts should be deported sine die.
Comment by lance — March 13, 2006 @ 6:51 pm
I am against banning books, but I am for exposing the vile Koran as a fraud.
In this sense I support the litigation.
Comment by scribe — March 14, 2006 @ 1:02 am
Don’t be idiots David, Alex, a Muslim Germany would not be Germany any more, just another Jew hating Islamic State.
By converting to Islam the former Germans will be able to hate Jews with a “good conscience.” This is why so many of the have converted already.
Comment by tom — March 14, 2006 @ 1:07 am
: If you have anything better to offer… please do.
ok then…
you said that “the only difference is…there’s…1 billion of them”. assuming you are making a reference to nazi germany, i would maintain that there are a number of other important differences that make the analogy weak. i have invited you to recognise those differences by asking some questions (it’s a neat trick that’s been going on for thousands of years). have you got any answers to those questions? it seems you prefer to sidestep them.
and another thing…
you say that kristallnacht, mass slaughter etc etc, is “the german way”. why? because it is a fact of german history, presumably. so haven’t you heard that, more recently, respect for the legal process has also been a fact of german history too? and am i not therefore at liberty now to say that this respect for due process is “the german way.”
btw, i don’t think that the nazi german program to do away with europe’s jews (and others) failed because of cowardice. have you any evidence to support that claim?
Comment by jonathan riley — March 14, 2006 @ 1:09 am
admin,
thanks for zilching my formatting mistakes. the way it appears now is not what i intended, but is actually an improvement over what i had intended anyway!
Comment by jonathan riley — March 14, 2006 @ 1:14 am
An easy read so even us infidels can understand the Koran, Islam and Muslims
http://islamcomicbook.com/
Comment by Infidel — March 14, 2006 @ 2:53 am
http://dailyscorecard.blogspot.com/2006/03/manute-bols-people-slaughtered-in.html
MANUTE BOL’S PEOPLE SLAUGHTERED IN SUDAN BY ARAB ISLAMISTS
MANUTE BOL SPENT HIS ENTIRE FORTUNE TRYING TO SAVE HIS PEOPLE FROM THE NORTHERN ARAB ISLAMIST INVASION - SPENT TIME IN SUDANESE PRISON ONLY TO ESCAPE BACK TO THE US AS A PENNILESS REFUGEE.
Comment by Mike Nargizian — March 14, 2006 @ 3:42 am
Koran vs. Constitution
The Koran says homosexuality must be punished by death, women are worth half of a man, apostates must be killed, non-Muslims must be treated as 2nd-class citizens (or murdered, depending on which verse you decide to quote). …
Trackback by Chris At Home — March 14, 2006 @ 8:20 am
Jonathan —
“One billion” reference is a reminder that if the West continues to put any identifiable Muslim of any degree of association with Islam in one single bucket, then the West has to be ready not to fight a terrorist here and there but rather large number of people around the World. Uniting agent of those people are calls such as this — to ban Quran. Or many other things… just read your newspaper.
Continuing on that idea is the reference to courage and cowardice. Personally, what Germans did to Jews was, among other things, an act of cowardice because Jews were a minority trying to make a living in their country with no backing of homeland (which they now have, thank God). I hope that the West will not get irrational to a point similar to when Hitler attacked both Russia and UK.
Then, you are making a point that there is no such thing as “German way” mostly because, as your example makes it quite clear, it all depends on your idea, or definition of it or ultimately, an angle. I could not agree more! Now, just apply the same logic to interpretation of Quran or, for that matter, any other religious book. Another reminder of the 30-ies Germany — the same hate-speech now related to Quran and ordinary Muslims was used to describe Torah and Jews.
Comment by Alex — March 14, 2006 @ 2:51 pm
Let Us Hope Germany Doesn’t Go Down This Road Again
Banning the Quran is far too close to the book burnings of the Nazi era in Germany, the novel Fahrenheit 451, and even the destruction of rock and roll records seen in this country not too many moons ago and even the really, really stupid McCain-Feingo…
Trackback by GM's Corner — March 14, 2006 @ 9:51 pm
There is a very real and positive purpose to dragging the Koran before the law, especially for proponents of free speech. We, the West would not be sinking to our enemies’ level, but we would be using their weapons against them in a positive way, to show just how counterproductive their weapons are, and force informed public debate on the Koran and Islam in the process.
The real purpose of the indictment should not be to get the Koran banned, but rather to show just how silly such laws are, to have them repealed, and to stop the ROP from demanding new laws in places like the UK. It would also help derail calls for EU and UN motions against free speech. If the ROP saw that these same laws can affect them more than anyone, they will be less inclined to attack our freedom of speech. It was interesting that when the aborted UK legislation was being mooted, Muslim groups realised that the Koran itself could be affectd, and lobbied to have it explicitly excempt. A Christian group opposed to the legislation promised to put the Koran on trial if the legislation passed. Clearly, they did not support the banning of the Koran, they were cleverly using the laws against their only supporters.
Also, such a court case need not be run with the intention of winning. The case should be used to expose the Koran for the vile work that it is, to force an informed public debate on the nature of Isam. There has been no such debate to date, and even the Bush White House still seems to be largely ignorant about Islam. A Koran court case would help rectify the issue.
As a masterstroke, the case can be withdrawn at the last moment, in the name of freedom of speech, but with the promise of re-engagement if the other side tries to silence us again.
The judiciary would then be left with two options: effectively outlaw Islam or insititute true freedom of speech. While the former is far preferable to the latter, either one is better than the situation we are in now.
I would rather fight to unban the Koran (on principle) or for my right to criticise Islam. the former is a matter of abstract principle. The latter is an immediate matter of survivial.
Comment by Ben Ze'ev — March 14, 2006 @ 10:03 pm
Prosecuting religion
From Agora (via BBBC): A German group calling itself the BVB (Bundesverband der Brgerbewegungen) is asking prosecutors in a number of German states to take action against the sale of the Koran, which they say violates the German penal code…
Trackback by George Junior — March 15, 2006 @ 4:22 pm
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Ban a Book for Freedom
When they get behind efforts to ban the Qur’an, it becomes clear that their purpose is not to defend freedom, but to keep Europe for the Europeans. Dressing their bigotry up in the garments of the enlightenment is a grievous insult to the defenders o…
Trackback by (parenthetical remarks) — March 16, 2006 @ 5:48 pm
ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION FIT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION. IT IS CLEAR FROM READING THE LIFE HISTORY OF THEIR PROPHET AND THE HOLY BOOK QURAN THAT THIS CRAZY BELIEF SYSTEM IS ONLY FIT FOR THE CRIMINALS. SO CALLED LIBERAL MUSLIMS ARE ONLY TRYING TO SANITIZE INDEFENSIBLE CREED OF ISLAM.
Comment by moloy pavan — January 12, 2007 @ 4:08 pm