Agora

February 14, 2006

Jyllands-Posten: “Moslem group ready to take some blame”

Jyllands-Posten, February 14, 2006

Moslem group ready to take some blame

By Lars Nørgaard Pedersen

Danish Moslems are now ready to assume part of the responsibility for the escalation of the cartoon issue.

Following harsh criticism, the group of Danish Moslems who spread the story of the cartoons in the Middle East, is now ready to assume a third of the responsibility for the final result of boycots, flagburnings and arson of Danish embassies which resulted from the publication of the 12 cartoons in Jyllands-Posten.

The spokesman for the Danish Moslem group, 28-year-old Ahmed Akkari who claims to represent 27 Moslem organizations tells Jyllands-Posten that he is ready to accept "a third of the blame" for the escalating conflict if Jyllands-Posten and the Danish Government accepts that the rest is theirs. Ahmed Akkari explains that this is an attempt to get into a dialogue.

"With this concrete action we are attempting to show that we bear part of the blame in order to achieve resolution to this crisis. We want to show that we aren’t running. In fact, we have been trying to do that for the last two weeks," says Ahmed Akkari.

By this, he refers to the attempts the group repeatedly has made to get into a dialogue, by inviting the Editor-in-Chief of Jyllands-Posten Carsten Juste to a debate, by suggesting they meet with Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen and by writing a letter to Foreign Minister Per Stig Møller.

But Ahmed Akkari feels that the group is not being heard. "We constantly try to participate in news programs. But we don’t feel that we are able to get into a dialogue with anybody. Therefore, we invite them to come to us by constantly making suggestions," Ahmed Akkari says.

Jyllands-Posten would like to have known if this means that the Danish Imams admit that the tour the delegations made to the Middle East was what made the crisis erupt, if they are planning to make any other tours and if this is only an attempt to further profile themselves. But Ahmed Akkari is a busy man: "This is what you get."

The group of Danish Moslems has for over four months been trying to get Jyllands-Posten to apologize for the publication of the cartoons.

Update: See The Brussels Journal for commentary

Transcript of DR interview with Ahmed Akkari

This is a transcript of an interview with Ahmed Akkari on DR TVs newscast at 18:30 Wednesday, February 8, 2006.

The Interview lasts from 8:43 to 12:08 in the newscast.

Interviewer: "Akkari, would you try and explain why you toured the Middle East with a picture taken from a French pig-squaling contest as if it was a picture that had been published in Denmark?"

Akkari: "Ehh.. We actually didn’t do that. It is something alike to media manipulation from some Danish newspapers, what is presented with this picture, because that picture is not what was shown [to the OIC and Arab League] and not in the context in which it is being presented now."

Interviewer: "You know, we have pictures of your predecessor as spokesman for the Community of Islam in Cairo, showing the picture and saying that it is one of the worst pictures. We’ll try and see what he is saying in this clip from Cairo."

[Cuts to picture of people sitting in Cairo around a table, man passing round cartoons while commenting]

Man (In broken English): "This is one of the worst picture can anyone ever imagine. They imagine our prophet [Arabic unitelligible (blessing?)] Hands of a man, praying, and a face of a pig."

[Cuts to studio again]

Interviewer: "This was a clip from Cairo during your tour. I guess there’s not much to be mistaken about? ‘One of the worst pictures’. But that picture did not originate in Denmark?"

Akkari: "That picture is not a part of the cartoons published in Jyllands-Posten and everybody knows that."

Interviewer: "That wasn’t my question."

Akkari: "But that is the issue at stake here…"

[Interviewer interrupts]

Interviewer: "That picture was brought on the tour in the Middle East in the folder your predecessor has on the table in Cairo and is displayed for your coreligionists…"

[Akkari interrupts]

Akkari: "I think we should try and ask in Cairo and in the Middle East in general if it is that particular picture that is making people angry now. If it is so, I shall relent. If not — and I think not — then we have to realize that the issue at stake here is the twelve cartoons in Jyllands-Posten and not a stunt like that."

Interviewer: "Why did you bring that picture with you in your folder?"

Akkari: "To show the provocations one may suffer when publishing a reader’s letter in Jyllands-Posten. They were answers to provocations that hed been received…"

[Interviewer interrupts]

Interviewer: "But the picture that you showed your coreligionists in the Middle East hadn’t been published… made public in Denmark."

Akkari: "Nobody said that."

Interviewer: "Then why did it need to be shown as you say, and as it was said by your predecessor…"

[Akkari interrupts]

Akkari: "It was shown after a series of.. eh.. documents and the core of the matter is to view the folder as a part of a whole. What you just did was to take a few seconds from a conversation. It may easily have been manipulated and it is easy to misinterpret. And if the statements of Danish Experts haven’t been good enough to let us understand that this is manipulation then I can easily understand that some may try to make us take the blame so they.. kind of are not held responsible."

Interviewer: "Ahmed Akkari, you are going in circles, excuse me for being blunt. [Interviewer is audibly indignant] That picture was brought to the Middle East. It was shown as some of the worst pictures shown in Denmark. It comes from a pig-squealing contest in France. Is what you have shown in the Middle East truthful or is it a lie?"

Akkari: "But the questions you’re asking and the way things are presented right now isn’t truth either because you take it out of its context and you don’t inform people as to what the whole of the matter is about. Because what it is about.. it is to show what anonymous pictures Moslems have received as a provocation. I don’t think it is something anybody has claimed that Jyllands-Posten brought and everyone is welcome to go there and ask."

Interviewer: "What is your message to Danes who perhaps, right now, are thinking: ‘That man, he is lying’?"

Akkari: "I think they shouldn’t pass judgment yet because we did not intend to lie in any way. We only hope that all of us will take the responsibility assigned to us by our actions. If it is shown that something is not right, we will of course be willing to correct that, if it is that which has caused all of this anger. But let us try to investigate this together, we are eager to investigate what this is about and if it is that which has caused the angers, then I am going on LIVE tv in a minute to explain it. So let’s hope we can do that together."

Jyllands-Posten: “Imam was forced to leave teaching job”

Imam was forced to leave teaching job

By Erik Thomle, Pernilla Ammitzbøll and Martin Johansen

Ahmed AkkariThe spokesman of the traveling Imams was forced to resign from an internship in Lykkeskolen in Århus before he completed his education as a teacher. He overreacted to a student who was pulling a Moslem girl’s headscarf.

During a temporary assignment Imam Ahmed Akkari was forced to resign effective immediately on Lykkeskolen in Århus before he had completed his education to be a teacher.

Apparently he had acted violently towards a boy from the fourth grade.

The incident was reported to the police and Ahmed Akkari was restricted from entering the grounds of the Moslem community school. Sources connected to the school have confirmed this.

Ahmed Akkari did not wish to comment because he no longer speaks to reporters from Jyllands-Posten.

According to a co-worker the incident took place a Friday during the last recess.

The boy was playfully chasing a girl. At some point he got a hold of her headscarf which opened, exposing the girls’ hair.

Unallowable

"Ahmed Akkari was so incensed by this that he started mauling the student. He threw him to the ground and punched the student’s chest with his fist. It was completely impermissible behaviour," says the male teacher who does not want to have his name be known.

Not because he will not stand by his statement but because he is worried by the backlash which might result from the tense atmosphere surrounding the cartoon issue.

A female teacher saw the incident which left the faculty in turmoil about the actions of Ahmed Akkari.

"The atmosphere was very heated, with several teachers threatening to resign in protest if the incident was glossed over. The general feeling was that this was beyond the pale," says the teacher.

According to Århus Stiftstidende, Ahmed Akkari was reported to the police for the violent assault.

Selam Community School

In spite of the violent attack, he nevertheless succeded in making a career as a teacher.

In August 2003 he finished his education and was later hired by Selam Community School. He no longer works there, allegedly because Ahmed Akkari moved to Copenhagen.

An employee of Lykkeskolen relates that the teachers were uneasy when Ahmed Akkari shortly before Christmas again visited the school.

He has led the Friday prayers for the Arabic Cultural Organization which uses rooms in Lykkeskolen.

Ahmed Akkari is the spokesman of the Moslem organizations which has protested the Muhammed cartoons in Jyllands-Posten.

Spokesman for the Imams

He was also the spokesman of the Imams from Århus which last year affirmed that they respected the liberal Danish women’s policies to Mayor Louise Gade (Liberal Party).

Shortly after, an old article of Ahmed Akkari’s surfaced where he writes of a Moslem girl who is abused because she refuses to wear a headscarf. He was grieved by this.

"But considering the issue at stake, I think she deserved it," he continued and added that had she worn a scarf "he wouldn’t have been ogling her."

Der Spiegel: “A Scene in the Wrong Movie”

Danish Minister President Anders Fogh Rasmussen, 53, discusses the caricatures of Mohammed, the disproportionate reaction of Muslims and the threat of a clash of civilizations.

Jyllands-Posten: “We are being pissed upon”

I translated this article before I got my blog and passed it around to some bloggers. It was republished everywhere. It is a translation of an article from Jyllands-Posten.

We are being pissed upon
by Per Nyholm

I think it was the long departed H.C. Hansen, one of last century’s great Danish statesmen who once - while the communists were demonstrating in front of Christiansborg [Ed: the seat of parliament] - threw his gaze across the palace square and remarked: "I will not be pissed upon."

Then he did what was necessary.

I feel that currently my beloved country is being pissed upon rather too much. Denmark has not been neglecting its duties on the international stage. We have supported poor people with acts and advice, we have worked for peace, we have sent soldiers, policemen and experts to all the far flung corners of the world. We have democracy, a state of law and a welfare state. Not all is perfect, but
we harbor no malice to our fellow man.

And yet Denmark is being pissed upon. The spokesman of the US State Department is pissing on Denmark, the British Secretary of Foreign Affairs is pissing on Denmark, the President of Afghanistan is pissing on Denmark, the Goverment of Iraq is pissing on Denmark, other Moslem regimes are pissing on Denmark. In Gaza, where Danes for years have provided humanitarian relief, crazed Imams
encourage people to cut off the hands and heads of the cartoonists who made the caricatures of Mohammed for the Jyllands-Posten newspaper.

Excuse my choice of words, but all this pissing is pissing me off.

What’s happening? I am not so much referring to the threats against Danish citizens and Danish commerce. Nor are the burnt down Embassies what occupies my mind. I am thinking of a word that keeps popping up whenever the Mohammed
cartoons are mentioned.

That word is BUT. A sneaky word. It’s used to deny or relativize what one has just said.

How many times lately have we not heard people of power, The Formers of Opinion and other people say that of course we have freedom of speech, BUT.

They have said it, all of them, from Kofi Annan, the UN Secretary General to our own Bendt Bendtsen [ed: Danish Politician]. Once we had to be sensitive of the easily hurt feeling of the Nazis, then came the communists, now it is the Islamists. The reason I say ‘Islamists’ is that I don’t for a moment believe all the world’s Moslems are pissing on us. I think we are dealing with thugs, fools and misled people. Those are the ones we have to deal with, and then the chickenshit politicians.

The cartoons are no longer something the Jyllands-Posten can control. They have already been manipulated and misrepresented to the point that few know what’s going on and fewer know how to stop it. This affair is artifically keept buoyant in a sea of lies, suppressions of the truth, misconceptions, lunacy and hypocrisy, for which this newspaper bears no blame. The only thing the Jyllands-Posten did was that it with a pin-prick made a boil of nastiness explode. It would have happened sooner or later. That it happened more than four
months following the publication of the cartoons, raises a question of its own. Are we dealing with random events or with a staged clash of civilizations? One might hope for the former yet expect the latter.

That’s why I say: Freedom of Speech is Freedom of Speech is Freedom of Speech. There is no but.

Initially I was doubtful of the timeliness of publishing the cartoons. Later events have convinced me that it was both just and useful. That they are consistent with Danish law and Danish custom seem to me less important than this: that we now know that remote, primitive countries deem themselves justified in telling us what we can do. Unfortunately we also have to recognize that governments close to us agree with them in the name of expedience.

The just is in the offensive this newspaper has launched in the name of Freedom of Speech, the useful in our newly acquired knowledge. Welcome to a brave, new world, where even our Prime Minister - in spite of his laudable firmness - must gaze out upon a scorched political landscape. It’s true, as is custom, his friend in Washington, George Bush, condemns the torching of our embassies, but his Department of State allude to us being the guilty ones in this case. The suggestion that Danish troops might benefit the democratization is buried under the charred remains of our diplomatic representations in Beirut and Damascus.

Perhaps it’s time we started mopping up this mess. Perhaps Editor-in-Chief Carsten Juste ought to remove his apology which has gone stale sitting so long on the front page of our internet edition and which does not seem to interest madmen. Perhaps our government ought to announce to Mona Omar Attia, the strange Ambassador of Egypt, that she is persona non grata.

Perhaps it ought to be announced to the ambassadors that have been called home to fictive consultations in the Middle East that they may spare themselves the cost of the return ticket.

To the degree it is possible, The Lying Imams ought probably to be expelled. And then we ought to make an effort for the Moslems who in a difficult situation have proven themselves to be true Citizens.

We, for our part, have no wish to be a burden on the Arab governments. We will happily withdraw our soldiers, policemen and diplomats. If they think our money smells, we will stop our aid. Our trade must make do as well as it can. We promise to not bear a grudge and, in time, we will be glad to return, but we are through with the hypocrisy. We have better things to do than being pissed upon at our own expense.

Let’s disengage from the Middle East. This world holds other opportunities.

Jyllands-Posten: “The Travelling Imams”

This article was first posted on Captain’s Quarters after I sent him my translation. This issue, though, seems to be stretching on for a bit, so I am going to start publishing the articles here.

This article is not available in the internet edition of Jyllands-Posten except by subscription. The pages can be viewed in low resolution by going here:
http://www.e-jp.dk/12-02-2006/demo/JP_02-01.html
and pressing the menu item "Indblik" on the left hand side.

JYLLANDS-POSTEN Sunday, February 12, 2005
THE TRAVELLING IMAMS

        They said they would send delegations on a tour of the world to convince Moslem countries to participate in a "defense" of the prophet Muhammed. Instead it turned into an attack. The Danes were described as "infidels", who would neither recognize Islam nor allow Mosques to be erected. Since, the battle cry "Death to Denmark" has sounded in many cities in the Middle East. Most of the persons who participated in the tour are Danish Citizens. Even so, they believe they did the right thing when they became The Travelling Imams.

THE MUHAMMED CRISIS
By Orla Borg and Lars Nørgaard Pedersen

    The evening of Novemer 18, 2005 was when they finally decided. All Danish channels were showing a smiling Anders Fogh Rasmussen opening the doors of Marienborg [ED:Downing Street No 10 in Denmark] to the Dutch parliamentarian Ayaan Hirsi Ali.
    To the Imams and other representatives of Moslem organizations, who for several weeks had been protesting the Muhammed cartoons in the Jyllands-Posten, it felt like a kick to the face:
    So, the Prime Minister welcomed her - this /woman/ who had written the manuscript for "Submission Part 1", a film highly critical of Islam.
    But the ambassadors of 11 Moslem countries who had asked so pleadingly to meet him regarding the caricatures of the prophet Muhammed, were not granted an audience.
    This was the straw that broke the camel’s back.
    The inflamed Danish Moslems who had organized in the network "Moslems for the Prophet in the Media" decided to enter phase two:
    The international phase with travelling delegations to the Middle East, since their first strategy - national actions within the borders of Denmark - had led them nowhere.
    Since October 2, 2005 - two days after the publication of the drawings - they had tried to make the Jyllands-Posten and the Danish government apologize for the drawings and ensure that there would be no repetitions.
    They had collected 17000 signatures. They had organized a demonstration numbering more than 3000 on Rådhuspladsen in Copenhagen. They had written to the Ministry of Culture from which they had not even received an answer. And lastly 11 ambassadors had co-authored a letter asking to meet the Prime Minister to discuss the matter.
    All in vain.

DEFENSE TURNED INTO AN ATTACK

    The 27 organizations called for an emergency meeting where it was decided to put together delegations who would "visit the Islamic World in order to inform them of the danger inherent in the situation and convince them to join in the defense and the support of our prophet," as the published mission statement of the delegations had it.
    But this defensive action evolved into an attack on Denmark - with the connivance of the diplomats of Moslem countries in Denmark.
    In the middle of November representatives of the Moslem organizations first met the Moslem ambassadors in Copenhagen.
    Mona Omar, the Ambassador of Egypt - who was later elected spokesman of the 11 ambassadors - in November received a handful of representatives of the Moslem organizations. They presented to her the plan of sending delegations to the Middle East.
    The embassy approved of the idea and arranged for them to meet in Cairo Muhammed Shaaban, an advisor to the Egyptian Foreign Minister, former Ambassador and a member of the board of the Danish-Egyptian institute for Dialogue in Cairo. The Egyptian embassy also helped with visas and provided contact to the League of Arab States in Cairo.
    Two main delegations were sent in the first round.
    The first delegation of five landed in Egypt on December 3, 2005 and returned December 11, 2005. The second delegation comprising four Danish Moslems travelled to Lebanon December 17, 2005 and returned to Denmark December 31, 2005. During that time, Imam Ahmed Akkari from the Lebanon delegation visited Syria to present their case to Grand Mufti Ahmed Badr-Eddine Hassoun.
    Furthermore a smaller delegation travelled to Turkey while individuals visited Sudan, Morocco and Algeria.
    The fact that the two main delegations were sent to Lebanon and Egypt, Imam Ahmed Akkari ascribes to several factors: The Danish Ministry of Foreign Affairs supports ‘The Arab Initiative’, designed to improve cooperation in the Middle East, and specifically on Lebanon. Furthermore they noted that Lebanon, in spite of civil war, had diverse religious communities, which might increase the likeliness of their being understood. And when Nicholas Sarkozy specifically had visited the Grand Mufti Muhammed Said Tantawi in Cairo during the debate over hijabs - headscarves - in France, it had made a great impression on them. And finally, several of the members of the delegation descend from the two countries: The businessman Ahmed Harby and Nour-Edin Fattah of the first delegation are of Egyptian descent while Raed Hlayhel and Ahmed Akkari of the second delegation are of Lebanese descent.

43 FULL PAGES

    According to Ahmed Akkari, one of the goals of the delegations was to avoid "a new Van Gogh-case" - referring to the Dutch director who was murdered by an Islamist extremist in 2004.
    "The trip to Egypt was needed to create a response to be used in Denmark," Ahmed Akkari says.
    The delegations brought stacks of a document 43 pages long containing pages of text and photos. The document contained the 12 cartoons from the Jyllands-Posten, 10 cartoons from the Weekendavisen and 4 derogatory photos, which according to the Moslems had been sent anonymously to Moslems in Denmark.
    The delegation to Egypt achieved a great impact.
    It was headed by Abu Bashar of The Community of Islam and amongst the leaders were also leaders of Pakistani and Turkish organizations.
    During the meeting with the League of Arab States, which took place on December 11, 2005, the Danish Imam Abu Bashar showed the photo depicting the prophet as a pig.
    Alaa Roushdy, the first secretary of Amr Moussa, participated in the meeting. The two Danish-Moslem representatives described the pig photo. They also talked about an announced movie critical of Islam, to be produced by Denmark, says Alaa Roushdy. The alleged movie was later to be one of many untrue rumours to circulate in the Middle East.
    The delegation also met the presidentially appointed Grand Mufti Muhammed Said Tantawy, who is also the leader of Al Azhar University, one of the world most renowned institutes for higher learning in the Sunni Moslem world.

THREAT OF A FATWA

    The Grand Mufti released a statement condemning the cartoons. A fatwa to boycot Danish goods was threatened unless the drawing were withdrawn. And more important: The Egyptian Foreign Minister promised to raise the issue during the coming islamic conference when the 57 countries of the OIC (Organization of the Islamic Conference) was to meet at the end of December.
    Symbolically, it was to be in Mecca - the home of Muhammed - that things took a turn.
    The second delegation got the Lebanese Foreign Minister, Fawzi Salloukh, to contact his Egyptian counterpart in view of a common response.
    The third and lesser delegation travelled to Turkey. Led by Zeki Kocer of DMGT - a union of Turkish immigrant organization - it is unknown with whom they met.
    In none of the countries visited by the delegations did demonstrators take to the street.
    But a meeting in Mekka set wheels in motion.
    The 57 Moslem countries of the OIC met in the home city of Muhammed in December. The Egyptian Foreign Minister brought the 43 pages from the Danish Delegation.
    The cartoons of Muhammed circulated in the corridors and became THE topic of conversation during the conference. In the final communiqué, the OIC noted that the 57 countries were worried about the growing hatred against Islam and condemned "the latest incident where the media of some countries have desecrated the holy prophet Muhammed."
    Now the case had gained traction.
    The end of January saw protests against Denmark erupting volcanically.
    First came the boycot of Danish products in Saudi-Arabia and Kuwait beginning January 26, 2006 - a boycot which quickly spread to other Islamic countries.
    After that, the cartoons became the theme of the Friday Sermon everywhere.
    The same weekend Moslem protesters burned down down the Danish embassy in Syria, attacked the offices of the Danish deputation in Beirut and since then death threats have been made against Danes in several Moslem countries.
    Thursday the ninth, the beginning of the Ashura holidays in the Shiite world, the cry went out "Death to Denmark" in Iran, Pakistan, Iraq and Lebanon.

THE INFIDEL DANES

    In Denmark criticism of the delegations has grown.
    They have been accused of showing false cartoons and spreading disinformation.
    But the 43 pages the delegations brough with them contained a text that has gone unnoticed so far.
    The text labels the Danes as "Infidels"
    "Though they are nominally Christian, secularization has submerged them to a degree where to say that they are infidels would not be a lie."
    Furthermore the text contains to specific disinformations.
    * Of the  situation of the Moslems in Denmark:
    "Those of the true faith are opressed in a number of ways, mainly the Islamic faith is not officially recognized in Denmark."
    * Of mosques in Denmark
    "Which brings about a series of problems; most significantly permissions to build mosques are not granted and Moslems thus have to reuse old commercial properties and storage facilities as places of worship"
    This information is wrong:
    * The Ministry of Religion recognizes 19 Islamic denominations in Denmark.
    * No Moslems are prevented from building Mosques. That it has not happened is caused by fraternal dissent in the Moslem communities: Agreement can not be reached as to who is to run the Mosque and thus sufficient money has not been raised for the building of a mosque.
    The debate about the delegations runs high.
    Few defend them. Some do, including one of the 11 ambassadors which the Prime Minister declined to meet.
    The Ambassador wishes to remain anonymous but says:
    "We encouraged none of the actions the delegations took, nor did they encourage us. They made their own choices and none of the ambassadors participated in any of their meetings. People are now trying to pin it on the delegations but it was already an issue when they left for Egypt."
    Alaa Roushdy, First Secretary of the influential leader of The League of Arab States in Cairo defends the delegations too:
    "I have been following the discussion as to whether the delegations hold responsibility for what is happening in the Middle East. But the truth is that the real reaction came one and a half month after their visit." Roushdy adds that the issue would have exploded under any circumstances once the League of Arab States and the OIC had been informed.
    Many criticised the delegations. One of their sharpest detractors is Ben Haddou of Moroccan ancestry, a former City Councillor in Copenhagen for the Centrist Democrats and later the Conservatives.
    He calls the delegations "half treason" and thinks that the delegations and protests have been staged to attract money from the rich Arab Gulf States.
    "They are fighting for their own Kingdom in Denmark and their own Mosques. Why does the Community of Islam call press conferences? Why do they so want to go with Danish Industry [ED: Umbrella Organization for Danish employers in the indutrial sector] to the Middle East? Why do they want public servants on the trip? Because it will give them a rubber stamp of approval. If they go to the Middle East with Officials of the Danish State, it will be seen as an official mark of approval and then the flow of money from the Gulf States will be without end."

NOT OUR FAULT

    Members of the delegations reject the claim that they carry the main responsibility for the attacks on Danish interests. Most members refuse to comment and refer to spokesman Ahmed Akkari. He has no regrets.
    "We never wanted this development or the violent actions which we have distanced ourselves from" (SIC)
    On the matter of whether the delegations haven’t achieved the exact opposite of what they set out to do, if the goal of the delegations was to strengthen the Islamic position in Denmark, answers Ahmed Akkari:
    "We will not accept that it was our responsibility. When Bush goes to the Middle East it often causes new riots, but nobody tells him not to go. We feel stigmatized as second- or third-class citizens."
    Do you feel as a second- or third-rate citizen?
    "I feel that the public discourse in Denmark is harsh towards the Muslims and that our voice is not heard. That goes for me personally as well."
    But you HAVE been heard the last couple of weeks, haven’t you?
    "When finally we do get our say, we are portrayed as villains. We want to be represented properly," says Ahmed Akkari.
    He predicts two endgames for the prophet-case: Either Moslems will be properly and fully recognized in Denmark or else portrayal of them as villains will be intensified.
    "I believe in the former. I am an optimist."

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